Thanks for stopping by for another installment of our mentor interview series! Iâm personally really stoked to share this mentorâs story. To give you an inside scoop⌠on the Inside Scoop, it took us TWO meetings to get this interview done because we had so much fun just chatting it up. Time flies when youâre vibinâ.
Diamond Ho is currently a product design lead at Facebook Reality Labs building secret projects đ. She is also one of the funniest and most authentic people I have ever met. She doesnât sugar coat and she is always 100% herself. She does this to help you grow personally and professionally. If youâre open to that feedback, you can go really far. These are traits Iâve come to admire in strong, female designers in the field. I donât know about yâallâŚbut I want to be Diamond when I grow up someday. đ¤Ł
Thank you, Diamond, for agreeing to meet and share your story with the community. Everyone at ADPList.org and I are very thankful to have you with us on this journey.
â Amber
đŚ= Amber KB Wilson (ADPList Ambassador)
đ= Diamond (ADPList mentor)
đŚ Okay, letâs get to know you, Diamond. Tell me about yourself.
đ I grew up in Hong Kong. I was really bad in school and I didnât know what I was going to do in the future. I just knew I liked drawing, but I wasnât good enough to be an artist. In Hong Kong, thereâs not much of a design world, let alone a product design world. I think the only design that existed was interior, graphic, and fashion design. Hong Kong is a very small city so we didnât learn that and I didnât know what to do. I just thought I would be a failure in life. A lot of teachers didnât like me because I was always outspoken. I was very loud. I donât behave as a âlady,â I quote them. They had convinced me that I would be a failure because I couldnât follow rules. So thinking I was going to be a failure was a big part of me when I grew up.
I wanted to go to America, because I watched âGossip Girl,â you know, the greatest TV show.
But my dad picked Seattle for me to go to, and that was the end of my Gossip Girl dream becauseâŚyou know, Seattle.
I arrived in the US and went to a community college because thatâs the cheapest way to get into college. There were very limited design classes so I took graphic design classes. After that, I applied to CCA without knowing that NorCal is very far from LA. I thought I was going to LA. Iâm from Hong Kong⌠I didnât know how big a country could be. I didnât like the Bay Area, because I wanted to go somewhere thatâs sunny. Like what Katy Perry sings about. I applied for graphic design because I didnât know any other major. And the day before I started, I was like, âHuh, I wonder what industrial design is.â So I just applied and switched to industrial design.
When I was in school, I was a great student, but I wasnât talented as an industrial designer. So I always got good grades because I worked really hard, but I couldnât find an internship. When I graduated, I had a hard time looking for an industrial design-related job. But because I was a good student, my department chair actually referred me for a lot of job opportunities.
There was an experience design internship at Logitech and I donât know what it was. So I was like, Oh, let me apply. I was so desperate because I was on a visa. I needed to find a job within 90 days of my graduation. I actually got that job, luckily. That job wasnât even related to design. Honestly, it was kind of like an administrative job, but they wanted design blood because Logitech back then was so lame. I figured I would just stay there for a little bit and look for new jobs.
Logitech rebranded literally a month after I joined and they had this new, hip route they were moving towards and they hired their first UX director. He was from the Fuse project and he had a hard time hiring UX designers because nobody wanted to work for Logitech back then because it was lame.
I told him, hey, if you can offer me a job, Iâll work for you.
He asked if I knew how to use Photoshop and I answered that I kind of did and he said, âSure, youâre hired.â
That was eight years ago. Back then it was so different. My husband went to school for interaction design. So these were the first-gen product designers. He literally has jobs coming to him. He never experienced the job hunt until 3 years into his career. He was one of the few people that had interaction design in his resume without having a job and that was such a new industry.
I never thought I wanted to do UX. Mine is such a unique story. Itâs sort of unheard of today. And now, being at Facebook, I know that the talent pool is crazy. The bar is so high. If I were a student today, I probably wouldnât be able to get a job.
đŚ OMG. Donât sell yourself short, haha. Thatâs crazy to hear regarding how the field has changed. Okay, so letâs do some soul searching. What kind of impact do you want to have in the world? What problems do you care about?
A big part of my design philosophy is to identify those small delights and bring it to people.
If I can put a smile on your face because you saw my design⌠Iâve achieved a lot.
That might be a low bar, but I think on a larger scale, if I can work on anything medical product-related, I think itâll be very exciting. I really wanted to get into medical technology. Specifically the psychological side of medical technology. I think my design guilty pleasure is designing consumer electronics. I love it. I think itâs because Iâm from an industrial design background.
But deep down, I really, really wanted to do medical work. And the sad thing is medical work is probably the least funded when it comes to design. So as a result, I havenât had a chance to transition.
When I first joined Facebook, I actually joined an integrity team. It was so cool because we were tackling a big problem â reducing hate speech on Facebook.
I actually didnât think it would be that impactful. The more impactful the work, then itâs the least amount of design youâre doing. If youâre doing just a beautiful design, itâs not going to touch a lot of people. If youâre doing a specific design to serve a specific purpose, then thatâs when youâre actually solving a specific problem. And thatâs when you have a high impact on your work.
When I was on the integrity team, the UI work was not very heavy. However, oh my god, we decreased hate speech on Facebook significantly based on our metric. I actually cannot announce the number, but it was such a huge number within only a year of work.
I thought that was also very impactful, but if Iâm being honest, that doesnât really charge me as a designer.
đŚ Now weâre gonna get the deeper. Can you tell me about a time that you didnât know, you would make it and you overcame it?
đ Let me talk about like a very significant one. It was life-changing for me. So I went to public school and I failed 13 subjects at one point. I didnât know what I would do. And I think that was the time I was convinced I was gonna be a failure. In Hong Kong, you can only get into colleges, if you have good grades. They donât value creativity, they donât value critical thinking.
I was growing up in this place that did not value who I am.
The only person that was encouraging me was my mom. If it was a teacher or a friend, that would not have been as impactful to me. It was my mom that had a direct impact on me. Instead of making me repeat a grade at a local school, she transitioned me to an IB School (International Baccalaureate). Itâs a type of educational system thatâs very new in Hong Kong â private schools that are very expensive. She put me in there because she thought that my critical thinking would be valued there. It was because of that school, I was actually able to be validated. I went from the last two students of my grade to the first five students of my grade, just because I switched environments.
Looking back, I think if I didnât make that move, I wouldnât be where I am today. I think itâs such a significant thing. Sometimes when a flower is not growing, donât blame the flower, blame the pot.
As I grow as a human being, I acknowledge that if my mom didnât double down on my critical thinking, my ability to speak up and speak my mind, I wouldnât be where I am. I say that to my mentees at work as well.
Itâs like, yo, my biggest secret is that Iâm a lead designer, but I donât prototype. I hate prototyping. I have managers that tell me I have to learn prototyping â but I also have managers that say⌠then donât do prototyping. So because I donât focus on what I canât do, I actually was able to double down on a lot of other things that Iâm passionate about and Iâm good at. I think this was a huge, pivotal moment for me.
I hope that if people are in this situation, and they feel like everything is not working out for me, just think about things that make you happy. My manager recently told me, âdonât mess with happy.â If youâre happy, double down on that. Donât mess with that.
đŚ What type of mentorship do you like to provide? Or like, what are your views on mentorship in general?
đ When I was in college, a big part of my mentor/teachers was that they were not very honest to me. I wasnât able to actually understand what I was missing. And as I got into this industry â and I became a mentor, and I got good managers, bad managers â I realized for me, having good mentors that can help you identify the delta is probably the most important thing.
So thatâs kind of my style and I write that on my profile because sometimes I feel like Iâm too harsh. I am just a very honest mentor, but I come from a place of love. Youâll also have to be receptive to feedback and understand that weâre not here to judge you, weâre here to help you. If you have that mindset, I feel like youâll be able to excel in your life.
My mentorship style has always been very direct, and I kind of want to tell you what I think has to change. But I also keep it pretty open-ended. If anyoneâs just wanting to chat and ask for career advice⌠Iâm all for that. I had a very unconventional route to my career. If we go all the way back to me being in Hong Kong, then coming to the US, I feel like itâs really about looking for an environment that fits you. Thatâs why I love helping people to understand what will help empower them to double down on things that they really are passionate about.
Really, really look for things that make you happy. Donât lie to yourself. I think there was a long while that I was lying to myself, like, Oh, I love doing CAD. But actually, I hate it. Every time I open it, I actually have a mild panic attack. And it takes me a while to be like, Okay, Iâm doing this now. But I found that when I open up like a Sketch file or a Figma file, Iâm in my space. This is my playground, you know?
As long as you know what youâre trying to doâŚ
As long as you know what you wantâŚ.
It canât be wrong.
I mean⌠with the obvious caveat â we all have to be decent human beings.
I always tell people that when I joined a team at Facebook I didnât care about the product. However, they were moving me to New York. That was my priority. I knew I wanted to move to New York. So double down on what you know you want instead of lying to yourself. Be clear about your goals and stick to it.
đŚ So tell me, what are your three most common questions you get as a mentor? And how do you answer them?
I get that a lot. I always tell people the same thing.
Those will always make you stand out. I think thatâs how I got a job at Facebook. I was a decent storyteller. Thatâs why I see that a lot of people struggle with interviews. Itâs because theyâll dwell on a point or theyâll get so nervous. If you treat it as like, I donât want to say a performanceâŚbut itâs as if youâre trying to sell this to a friend, how would you do it?
Being a good storyteller is great. Also, physical appearance, aka visual design, is very important. Like I said in my group session, I donât want to be shallow, but you know, reality is shallow. If youâre not a visual designer, at least get your portfolio to a decent place. You donât have a great visual designer, you just have to be clean, give attention to details, and all that.
This is a huge thing because I think it goes back to the self advocacy part. And as women, weâre not really good at self advocacy. Thereâs actually data to support that â Iâm not just throwing out a sexist comment. Women are really not good at that. Weâre always doing this thing where we work so hard⌠hoping people will recognize that. Also, I think being Asian, thatâs a huge part of me as well. Asians are always like, Oh, donât peek out. I think in Britain or Ireland, itâs called the tulip problem⌠so like, donât be the tallest tulip basically. Conan OâBrien talked about it a lot. Itâs like, you donât want to stand out, you want to blend in. But at the same time, you want to be the best at this level.
Itâs so funny, I just gave a talk about the art of self-advocacy. The very next day, I was in this situation where I did a piece of big work, and the lead didnât give me due credit. I was so upset. He almost even claimed the credit.
So then I was like, in my voice deep down, âjust look away, you know, heâs way above you. You shouldnât say anything.â But then I was on the street, walking with my husband. I thought, âyou know whatâs ironic? I literally gave a talk about self advocacy. And now I struggle to advocate for myself.â
I finally was able to put together my thoughts and I called that lead out for not giving me credit â and he actually wrote me an apology. He also publicly recognized me and I was so proud of myself.
A big part of self-advocacy is really knowing what your worth is. I think a lot of times, weâre trying to play it down. We try to be humble.
Look, you can be humble, but at the same time, know your worth, and advocate for it.
So thatâs a huge part of getting a promotion and getting a good rating. Itâs also tied to good storytelling. What is the narrative youâre trying to put out?
And thatâs a huge thing at Facebook. If I want to become a senior designer (I went from a mid-level to a senior, to a lead,) I actually have to understand what my style is like as a senior designer, as a lead designer, and then slowly actually get that like to prove it to people, I was able to do that.
Chances are, if you can get the promotion itâs probably because youâre ready. Open up the conversation with your managers to identify the delta. If your manager sees that youâre not ready, talk to them and ask them why.
It could be something like, oh, your manager thinks that youâre not doing enough share outs⌠great! Thatâs a very easy, solvable problem. A lot of these deltas are very solvable. When you avoid that conversation, you canât work on it. If you want to get married, would you hope for a proposal or would you talk to your partner about marriage? You wouldnât just sit and wait for a proposal, you would talk to your partner and see if you two are ready for marriage. Itâs the same thing with your manager. The key to getting a promotion is just talking to your manager.
đŚ Okay, one final question. So if there is one thing you could tell every single mentee you have ever met or will meet â What would that one piece of advice be for design?
If something makes you happy, double down on that.
If it doesnât, donât fake it. Be honest about that.
You know this is a huge part of becoming an adult. Sometimes you kind of lie to fit into society standards or like, wanting to work at Facebook, because of whatever reason. Iâm just like, come on, you want to work for Facebook because they pay more. And thatâs fine. But just be honest about it. If youâre doing something that makes you happy, donât look away because youâre probably onto something.
This question is hard because there are different types of mentees, but not messing with your happiness is one thatâs just good life advice. To give some backstory, I hit my vesting cliff at Facebook and Iâve been really thinking if I should look for a new job. I realized, though, that Iâm really happy and I havenât set that for a long time in my career. Iâm really happy and the worst days are better than my best days in a bad place. Thatâs what you want for your life right?
The grass is always greener on the other side, but if you look at where you are nowâŚyou realizeâŚhey, my grass is pretty f*cking nice.
Of course, itâs also great if you want to keep challenging yourself⌠but I think you just have to be aware of what you want. My therapist always says that happiness is rare for people.
Get mentored by Diamond on adplist.org!
đ You can book time with her here!đ
đ Follow her on Twitter here! đ
đââď¸ Feel free to bring questions on Career Advice, Interview Techniques, Leadership, and your portfolio!
đ Her interests also include: AR/VR, Entertainment, Community, and MedTech
đ Her industries are: Creatives and Tech
đŁ She speaks: English, Mandarin Chinese, Cantonese, and Turkish
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âThanks for reading!
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